tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048879464910781933.post806767463860195898..comments2023-10-12T00:25:24.119-07:00Comments on Talking Brains: Motor control for speech versus non-speech vocal tract gesturesGreg Hickokhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16656473495682901613noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048879464910781933.post-63156323272875004942013-06-29T15:10:29.476-07:002013-06-29T15:10:29.476-07:00Hello Marc,
Speaking of neuroglia and neurons,
&...Hello Marc,<br /><br />Speaking of neuroglia and neurons, <br />"...some are involved in specific motor movements."<br /><br />Yes, I think we are in agreement.<br /><br />Thanks for the dialog.<br /><br />RonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048879464910781933.post-72580892145027958712013-06-19T15:00:24.236-07:002013-06-19T15:00:24.236-07:00Hi Ron,
Sorry for this debate. It is a never endi...Hi Ron,<br /><br />Sorry for this debate. It is a never ending story (as Greg would say, could you clarify what you mean by "particular function"?).<br /><br />In your post, you argue from the x-ray movies that "this represents a clear dissociation of tongue control for nonspeech and speech movements". But from X-ray movie, it is difficult to speak about 'separate neural mechanisms'.<br /><br />I do think that some neuroglia and neurons both subserve orofacial speech and nonspeech (tongue) motor control. I also think that some are involved in specific motor movements, kynematics, action goals, etc...<br /><br />So I think we both agree and we are speaking on the wind and weather.<br /><br />MarcAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048879464910781933.post-79836553548053210012013-06-15T08:42:27.652-07:002013-06-15T08:42:27.652-07:00I might define 'separate neural mechanisms'...I might define 'separate neural mechanisms' as "the neuroglia and neurons that subserve a particular function." In the present case, speech production.<br /><br />Ron NetsellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048879464910781933.post-40331406569769160672013-06-11T17:42:40.315-07:002013-06-11T17:42:40.315-07:00Maybe you both could clarify what you mean by &quo...Maybe you both could clarify what you mean by "separate neural mechanisms"? Greg Hickokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16656473495682901613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048879464910781933.post-4337709015268127662013-06-10T02:53:10.984-07:002013-06-10T02:53:10.984-07:00Hi Ron,
Thanks for your post. My only point was t...Hi Ron,<br /><br />Thanks for your post. My only point was that I do not disagree (in fact, I fully agree with you) but, 'stricly speaking', I do not see any evidence on the X-ray movie for 'separate neural mechanisms'. <br /><br />About specialized non-speech and speech orofacial behaviors, I think everyone agree on that point. For speech production viewed as a 'specialized behavior', there are a number of data and theories (e.g., Frame/Content theory by MacNeilage and Davis, exaptation mechanisms on feeding to speaking, etc).<br /><br />But my point remains. We need more data to understand the above-mentioned possibility of 'separate neural mechanisms'.<br /><br />Marc Sato<br /><br />PS: one intesting recent paper from my colleagues:<br />Serrurier,Badin, Barney, Boë & Savariaux (2012). The tongue in speech and feeding: Comparative articulatory modelling. Journal of Phonetics 40, 6 (2012) 745-763Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048879464910781933.post-88040285711246226282013-06-09T13:05:01.301-07:002013-06-09T13:05:01.301-07:00Greg,
It seems to me that “Marc’s” first two sen...Greg,<br /><br />It seems to me that “Marc’s” first two sentences are saying the same thing.<br /><br />First sentence,<br />“But, at the brain level, I do not see any evidence that “implicitly, nonspeech and speech movements have separate neural mechanisms.””<br /><br />Second sentence,<br />“I of course do not disagree about distinct neural substrates of speech vs. nonspeech motor control.” Bold italics are not in the original.<br /><br />In addition, I didn’t say anything about shared neural mechanisms in my post. But, I don’t think they are shared. I believe, through evolution, we have developed specialized neural circuits to subserve specialized behaviors. I suggest speech production is a specialized behavior as evidenced in the x-ray movie. The girl struggled to put the tongue behind the alveolar ridge, and failed overall. In the [da] sequence, she clearly and rapidly made the necessary tongue-tip-alveolar ridge contact.<br /><br />Maybe I misinterpreted what Marc was saying.<br /><br />Ron<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048879464910781933.post-91796441718143072052013-05-19T04:32:27.283-07:002013-05-19T04:32:27.283-07:00Hi Greg,
Thanks for this nice X-ray movie.
But...Hi Greg, <br /><br />Thanks for this nice X-ray movie. <br /><br />But, at the brain level, I do not see any evidence that 'implicitly, nonspeech and speech movements have separate neural mechanisms, and the practice of one does not facilitate the function of the other'. <br /><br />I of course do not disagree about distinct neural substrates of speech vs. nonspeech motor control. But, as you probably know, there is also a lot of evidence for shared neural mechanisms (Ackerman, Brown, Cheng, Riecker, Simonyan, Terumitsu, Wise… and others). As a clear example, one of my colleagues, Krystyna Grabski, recently performed an fMRI experiment providing evidence for a core neural network involved in laryngeal and supralaryngeal speech and nonspeech motor control in healthy adults. <br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Marc<br /><br />Grabski, K., Lamalle, L., Vilain, C., Schwartz, J.-L, Vallée, N. Troprès, I., Baciu, M. Le Bas, J.-F & Sato, M. (2012). Functional MRI assessment of orofacial articulators: neural correlates of lip, jaw, larynx and tongue movements. Human Brain Mapping, 33(10): 2306-2321.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com